When Diamonds derive 80% of their income from the tools business

They do everything in their power to make sure you are buying the tools.
Quixtar helps them by preventing you from advertising on the web, preventing you from showing product in trade shows, and discourages newspaper and other forms of mass advertising. I had a great deal of difficulty getting ads in newspapers; the newspapers had gotten many complaints from people about MLM false advertising and were very wary.
If you can’t advertise except by buying their advertising tools, then who owns the business really?

We’re talking extreme pressure and well-established brain washing techniques. Also, upline will not help people who aren’t on the tools system.

have borne out our assertions–more than 99% of people lose money in Amway/Quixtar.

You may want to look at www.pyramidschemealert.org. They have an interesting analysis that demonstrates that one is will lose more money in MLM than in gambling.

Why do you put so many words in quotes? It gives your message an “I’m better than you” undertone that I “hope” was not your “intention.”

Hi..My name is Jay

I am just curious on why people may have assumed that they “had” to go about the particular “system” of some MLM’s. Everyone has their own “perception”. Things work for some and not others.

When you involve yourself in a marketing don’t you become your own boss? So really, people didn’t “have to” purchase tapes, books and go to “meetings” and “seminars”. They chose too. or were poorly “directed” and mis-guided. You wouldn’t have gotten “kicked out” for not participation would you?

And a good mlm doesn’t “make you” buy products if you don’t want to. It’s just called loyality to a corporation that has “possibily” given you an opportunity (only if you work)!

I guess my question is in regards to people of Quixtar that don’t fully understand the “keep it simple” structure and would like to hear some feedback. It’s a shame that the sponsors have “mis-perceived” this company in saying that you “have to” do it this way or you won’t be successful.

Thanks for
your time and great club 🙂

Hummmm. Interesting dilemma

(see me scratching my chin while furrowing my brow) You’re right. All have pros and cons. I have no experience with buying and having to move such a large piece of equipment. When we have bought something large it’s been a house, vehicle, etc. that we have already arranged payment for and we took possession the same day.

I guess if I had to pick only one choice, it would be the cashier’s check but you still have to arrange moving the equipment. So I am not sure that is best. Sorry I can’t be more help.

Good evening all

Haven’t been online much lately; one of our ongoing Murphy frustrations is that my computer might be about to croak off. But I’m slogging through ultra-slow performance, rather than putting this on my smartphone, because we have a pretty exciting thing shaping up here. We may have found a combine. But now I have a payment method dilemma.

An equipment dealer about 5 hrs away has the model we’ve been looking for, at a price better than we expected to find. We haven’t made an offer yet, but we probably will sometime this week. We’re not talking a huge sum of money – less than $1000. But I’ve been debating with myself how best to send him the money if we can agree on a price. Each method has some pro’s and con’s:

1) a personal check would be convenient, but it would have to clear before it was considered “real”. There’s also the delay in getting it mailed there. We expect 4-6 days’ worth.

2) a certified check would be only slightly less convenient, and wouldn’t need the clearing time to be considered “real”. But the mail would take just as long.

3) a wire transfer to the seller’s bank account would be nearly instantaneous, less than 24hrs. But the seller would have to give me the wire instructions to his bank, and that makes some folks nervous. Yet this is my current most-preferred method. No question when the money gets there, and no wait before it’s considered “real”.

4) A paypal transfer might work, except he didn’t seem keen on even sending me pictures via email. I don’t know that he has any sort of business website either. I can offer to go this route but not sure he’d accept. This is not an eBay auction so there’s no formal auction house to do the money handling. Just him and me.

5) I’d dearly love to go out there, inspect the machine in person, and hand him cash. But the drive would be 5 hrs one way, I don’t want to have to spend the night, I’m not sure my truck is really up to such a long roadtrip (particularly through some rough and empty country), and frankly I would rather not take the time to do that. Flying out there would very possibly cost more than the combine itself given the short turnaround time. So doing this in person seems unlikely.

There’s also the issue of when to make the payment vs when to have the equipment movers arrive. I can’t exactly have the delivery crew load up the machinery and drive off with it, before it’s paid for. So I’d have to know that the payment got there before I scheduled them. But I don’t like the idea of my paid-for equipment sitting there for days or weeks while the delivery guys get their scheduling figured out. Stuff like that is too easily “disappeared”.

When my husband was traveling for work

I joined FestivalNet.com which is for exhibitors, artists, etc. You can search their site and see what’s going on in any given area. I used it as a tool to find things to do in areas I was unfamiliar with and attended a number of events.
Maybe this will help locate things to do in your surrounding area that would be free to do. A search of our area within 30 miles has a pirate fest, mango festival, craft festival, street fairs, parades, music fests, etc.. I like the craft fairs as I always come back with a head full of ideas and they provide great motivation for repurposing things I already have on hand. I generally don’t duplicate what I see, but take things a step farther.
Also, whomever suggested joining a museum is spot-on. We did this when the kids were little but take note that they have a 90-mile rule – meaning that you didn’t get in free to places within 90 miles of your ‘home’ museum. Now, this was never, ever enforced in our experience but something to consider. We priced memberships at a number of museums, too, because a family membership at the best value we could find is $35 today. Another, for example is almost $100, so we went for the $35 membership with free access to the museum with a $100 membership price.

Sorry for the OT posting, but I’m about to shoot this darn machine

And then I wouldn’t be able talk to all you fine folks. I know someone on this list has a computer repair biz, but I don’t remember who it is. Whoever it is, can you contact me offlist? I have some kind of virus or malware running on my machine, and I’ve run all the utilities I can think of to root it out, to no avail. My machine was working very nicely up until right after my trip in May to Phoenix, so this is a new issue and not simply an age-related or obsolete-machine issue. Thanks all. Sorry for the interruption………….

We were getting slammed by Verizon

Now we’re on Metro PCS which has UNLIMITED talking, text & internet for $100/month for four phones–I think they’ve even reduced it to $80/month. We live in the Los Angeles area. If Metro PCS has coverage in your area I would check them out. It’s has a few spotty areas of coverage, but for us it’s worth the savings. It’s almost good enough to get rid of our home phone.

I don’t think you’re “rationalizing” at all

I’m in the same boat you are and wondering how we could do without a cell phone now. We don’t use ours either for anything fancy, and like you, have a family plan which helps to keep up with details in our busy lives. So I would be interested to see what others have to say too. I have looked into the “go phones” but they are so expensive, it seems, 25 Cents a minute. It seems like keeping our plan is the least expensive option.

Cell Net10/Tracfone cuttin bills…

We are so trying to cut expenses!!
My biggest areas to cut:

Sprint Cell phone 110
Internet/Cable 80

I’m looked at a Net10 phones. Then I can determine how much I spend. I don’t have a commitment and can better control the cost.

Downside. I surf & email on my phone.. and will have to give it up…
Maybe when we live like no one else I can get an iPhone!!

Cable is my only source of internet.. there are still places without broadband or dsl or anything. I’ve not been able to conquer this bill… They will not a la carte… so I have to get cable & the internet package… grrr… I did try a skywire… but they tore up my roof!! Alas, I cannot deal with dial up!!! grrr…

Any experience with Net10 or Tracfone??

Just a thought

It still had some stickers on it. I found one with a number on it. I’ll use that in my online search for a better price.

In the mean time, I went and bought out all the store had yesterday, 82 in all. Yikes! Did I actually do that?! I ended up getting 15% off the total order so that was good. It is actually a candle holder but works perfectly as a coaster holder.

Thank you so much. That means a lot coming from you! I am still somewhat technically insufficient but am learning a lot. I still have a ways to go but will get there in due time. My goal is to spend time every day on the website till I get it where I want it, then kind of go in to maintenance mode. If you have any words of advice on websites–and have some time–I’d love to hear them.

Well I ticked the hubby off

He wants to plan a trip for our anniversary in July. Nothing too extreme, but probably several $100s for a long weekend. I said no. Every cent extra we have NEEDS to go to finish the work on Mom’s house so:
1)she can move into it and pay the associated bill instead of us ($500 or so a mo)&
2) I won’t have to deal with her constant guilt trips…
To accomplish this I have signed up for an extra 8 or 12 hr shift for the next 3-4 weeks. Now If I don’t get cancelled…..
I am going to try an plan a surprise (cheap) long weekend for us this summer. Kind of a peace offering as it were.

I went back and looked at the bottom of the item

It still had some stickers on it. I found one with a number on it. I’ll use that in my online search for a better price.

In the mean time, I went and bought out all the store had yesterday, 82 in all. Yikes! Did I actually do that?! I ended up getting 15% off the total order so that was good. It is actually a candle holder but works perfectly as a coaster holder.

Thank you so much. That means a lot coming from you! I am still somewhat technically insufficient but am learning a lot. I still have a ways to go but will get there in due time. My goal is to spend time every day on the website till I get it where I want it, then kind of go in to maintenance mode. If you have any words of advice on websites–and have some time–I’d love to hear them.

There is no number of any kind on the tag

It has the distributor’s name and city/state. I used that to look them up but cannot find this item in any division. 🙁
Yes, it is very cool. He and his guys do some awesome work. Corky, the cabinet maker, is just a quiet unassuming down to earth person.
Dh was telling me about something he saw at a BBS yesterday that we could use, he’d have to add a little to it and stain it. I will talk to dh about asking the cabinet maker about designing something. As I posted on my website last night, one of dh’s roles is my “idea bouncer”. 😀 If anyone is interested in reading what I posted yesterday it is at my website and look under “about us”. It just tells a little about us, and how dh and dd help out. My website is a work in progress. I have some items posted but not everything is up yet. Anything can be customized.

I have a tag from the item

I found a manufacturer on it or maybe they are the distributor? I have looked them up online and they seem to have several divisions and I have yet to find this product in any of their division websites.

I will keep looking though. In the meantime, I will probably go clear the shelves of what they have till I can find it online.

Thanks for the encouragement!

More encouragement on the home front …. I got my coasters in 2 locally owned places. One is a custom cabinet makers shop. He gets a lot of traffic. He says he will display them for me and does not want a cut of the action. I get to keep it all! Wow! What a blessing! Of course, he is building our new kitchen cabinets so he is making a lot more off that than the coasters. 😉

I will be putting some monogram coasters in a local store that has a lot of home accessories. As an incentive to get her to carry them, I gave her a price break. She placed an order for 24 monograms of the most popular letters they get requests for. I will deliver those Thursday sometime. I must admit, the owner was hesitant at first. She had had poor success with the last coasters made by someone else. I have a suspicion of who did them. If I am right, I can see why. I have seen her work and it’s not the best. Now, I am sure there are others who do better work than me but there is really no comparison between mine and the other girl’s. She uses a different technique.

Anyway, I am excited. I’ll ride this ride as long as it lasts. If all else fails, I’ve got FB and my website! LOL I will continue with those regardless of what happens in the store. I see the website more for out of town shoppers or for people who are unable to get out to stores due to health, etc. It’s all good, as they say.

BTW, you are doing great on getting your business going

If you have the name of the company, or a tag from the product you found in town you can call your public library and ask for “information please” or at least that is how we ask for it at our library system. They will put you in to the reference department. Using the info you have they have a way of looking up the exact manufacturer and their contact information for you for free. This was one of my jobs when I worked for Advertising Novelties. Customers would bring us a product sample and ask us how much we could provide it for in group lots.

As part of my work I have been working on my website for my coasters this evening

I am trying to get a description of the materials I use on my website this evening. It’s there but it’s not pretty. It will have to suffice till tomorrow. I plan on spending a good bit of time on it tomorrow. I need the practice on building the pages. Plus the more I have on it …. products, descriptions, information, etc., the better chance I have of getting some sales from it.

I also want to go by a locally owned store tomorrow. They sell decorative items for the home, both inside and out. I want to pitch my coasters to the owner to see if they will carry them.

I am still trying to track down a “coaster holder” for my coaster sets. I found something on the tag of a product I came across at store in town. I need to track down more info on it. That is my third goal for tomorrow.

Give up on the band wagon of saying bad things to pre programmed people about their MLM

It won’t work. Just ask questions and be supportive in other ways. I have moved to a really nice small town in CT. One of the clubs here is full of MLMer’s. They give me referrals for my spa, but they ask for them in return. Some of them won’t accept anything I give them in return except referrals so I give up trying to give back.

I just stood up for myself and I said “I will support your local charity blog, but I will not support any MLM or network marketing group period.” So after that, I was afraid that I wouldn’t get any more from this one charity group, but I was wrong!:) The charity is winning over and I did hear from these women again. So they still have some of their brains left:)

This is just one example and I have many more! I just wanted to tell you something positive to look forward to. I just tell these ladies that I think their charity does good work and they turn all into mush and that I support their charity. They just want to feel appreciated and be given a sense of purpose in life. That is what I think is going on in my town. Maybe this will give you ideas for helping out your close ones.

I have a very good friend in Market America

and since we live in a pretty small town, I also know about five others who have joined (so far). Almost everyone who has joined are people who can least afford to lose money, including my friend. For over a year I’ve tried, gently and by asking questions, and sometimes not very gently, to point out that this may not be the greatest thing since sliced bread. It’s led to nothing except hurt feelings, so after the last time I’ve given up. However, since hope springs eternal, is there anything you can tell me about Market America being “one of the worst” that I can pass along to her should she begin to question for herself?

I appreciate your help – I appreciate all of you – this is a wonderful blog, and someday I hope my friend belongs to it!

Question about entity

Does anyone know if Primerica is an MLM? Anything good or bad about it? I am mostly a lurker, but am involved with one MLM (Shaklee) and have family members who are involved in others (Market America, Melaleuca).

My car insurance came due for its 6-month renewal

I *had* been paying monthly installments since the last renewal becaus I didn’t have enough to pay the full 6 months at once. It will be a stretch, but it will save me $92 over the course of this renewal. Every little bit helps.
Mailed my mortgage payment Friday. It’s due on the 1st, but I have a 15-day grace period. By the end of the month, I should be able to send it earlier.
Non-financial tasks: I’ve been trying to de-clutter my basement to make space for my music studio. I’ve given away/trashed a lot, but I still have a LONG way to go. Ugh. No, I haven’t done any more work in my backyard for the garden. It has been raining on the days when I actually had time to work on it. Mother Nature is working against me…

Hi, I’ve been trying to get the truth out of this MLM project for a couple of weeks now

And there are some holes appearing in the claims. I found this MLM through an add in the Daily Mail(UK) and went to the site: 200kincome.com. He is an agent for a company called Passport2Wealth, so I began asking some questions.
The most important was about paying.
I said could the money be transferred through a Paypal account.
Now the first thing he emailed me was that he did not use paypal. But guess what?
When you follow his YouTube broadcasts, he displays a page showing how much money was paid into his Paypal Account from www.lendme1000.com! So how can this be?
Clearly he cloned the page and displayed it as his own.
Now only is this very illegal it reminds me of an old say: if you want to be a good liar, you have to have a good memory.

I spent about 10 years dabbling

Euphemism for bankrupting myself, literally, as I am reaching retirement aga, – in mlm always thinking the concept was good, just a matter of finding the “right” one. Amway, NuSkin/PhotoMax, Noni, AmeriPlan, are survivors of about 6 others, now out of business, that I tried.

My conclusions on my way to bankruptcy court:

You can only lose money in mlm.
Everyone is lying to you.
The more dedicated you are, the more it will cost you.
Bait and switch is a major modus operandi of mlm promoters.
One can only become a promoter by being willing to be a liar for the liars.
Many mlm company products are fine, but are too expensive and/or cursed with unprovable claims.
Lead sellers, seminar leaders, book writers on how to succeed in mlm, make their big money suckering people into buying their products, not via mlm downlines.
Lead systems maintained and promoted by some teams (often as “the only way you can succeed) is the secret cash cow for the leaders. Conflict of interest?
Products and services in the real marketplace survive by being cheaper, better, and readily available. mlm products and services universally fail on all 3 counts.
Any scheme that requires “religious” type of belief, trust and commitment is to be avoided like the devil. Save it for church.

How could I be so stupid? I wanted to retire without money worries.

There’s more, but you get the picture.

Avoid MLM. Life is too short to waste even one day wading through the lies, enduring the fraud, trying to do what cannot be honestly done.

That statement was made in jest

However, sadly, if one wants to make any kind of real money in Amway, you got to get yourself in the tools business. Everybody who has been in Amway or dealt with Amway knows that there is no money to be made, unless you tap into the tools business. The statement sounds a lot like something like mob speak. Amway operates very much like the mob, only they wrap up their dealings in the American flag and God and Country bit. You would not believe what those people do, and how deep their pockets are. They are truly evil. But don’t take my word for it. Read the book “Merchants Of Deception.” Do a google search. I was lucky. I was lazy enough not to work the business seriously.

If I was a wiseguy, I probably would of taken my diamond upline out back and had a little chat. But I don’t operate that way. There are so many good honest people that got caught up in the Amway scam, it hurts. I see the damage that has been done, I have seen lives destroyed. I will never touch any kind of MLM ever again.

I will always speak out against Amway. I will discourage people from joining. I will always warn everyone I know not to join Amway. And if they have a problem with that, so what. They come to my door, they will have hell to pay.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for your story..

each experience brings new light on the subject. Can I ask you to elaborate on:

“There is no way one can succeed unless you take your diamond upline back behind the building and ask for a cut in the tools business, or else.”

I think I know what you’re saying, but I want to be clear, as it seems this was the realization that changed your mind.

Long story short:

I was an MLM junkie. Let’s see, first there was Amway which lasted about two years or so. Then there was Excel which lasted about a year or so. Then there was my pitiful attempt at Equinox. Equinox sucked anyway so no loss there. Then the last company I was with was called New Image International. New Image was a lot of fun, they were actually truthful about network marketing and taught a lot different than the previous MLM’s I was involved with.
I did not make any money, but I did learn a lot, especially with New Image.
I don’t support MLM companies. There is no way one can succeed unless you take your diamond upline back behind the building and ask for a cut in the tools business, or else.
I look at my time in those MLM’s as a LEARNING EXPERIENCE. I may not have made any money, but I did learn a lot about myself. I did eventually become very self confident, my self esteem is sky high. I maintain a positive mental attitude, however I apply myself not to an MLM but to working my job the best I can with the goal of eventually owing my own business here in my hometown.
So there you have it. If you want for me to elaborate further in my MLM experiences, just email me.
I have a question for this blog members. Have any of you heard of Dale Calzert? If so what is your opinion on him?
Take care, have fun and chat with ya’ll soon.

Posted in MLM

There actually is a Photos area of the club

I haven’t looked at the permissions there in a while. Several years ago, we experienced a rash of people coming in and flooding the Files, Links and Photos sections with spam and other junk. It took Ruth, the founder of this group, and me a while to clean it all up, and the result was that we shut down most of the permissions to those areas. I’m not sure what she did with the Photos area, specifically, whether the entire area is restricted or just certain folders.

Anyway, many of the people who participate in this forum are interested in remaining anonymous. Even in online groups where avatars are used, most people don’t use their real names or pictures but borrow from celebrities or cartoon characters or other kinds of graphics.

Either way, if pictures were posted here, they would not be avatars and would not be associated with the posts, so unless you went searching for photos of people in the Photos area of the club, you wouldn’t see them, anyway.

I think that’s why there have been no requests for such a thing here.

I like the Net 10

I found that buying online is the best way to go. I paid $20.00 for a motorolla phone and it came with 300 minutes of airtime. So, its like I got the phone free. I bought this phone for my daughter. I signed up on a thing with them online also, that they automatically add 150 minutes every month to that phone for $15.00. All unused minutes rollover. Text only charges 1/2 a minute off your airtime. Net 10 is alot better deal than Tracphone.

Did anyone else get a check?

I got a settlement check for $105.00 I put in for $900.00 They said that they had so many claims that they could on pay about 5%.

I know a lot of people make some money on Google’s advertising models

The trick is you have to have a website that gets traffic so you have people who click through on the ads. If you’ve got the site already, then I’d suggest adding some ads from Google. It won’t make you rich, but it might provide some income. Remember, a lot of bloggers who are big make their money on ads on their site.


If we all agree that MLM’s won’t make us any money, what do you think about click through? Like Google Adsense and the like? This seems a cheaper and less dangerous way of making money?
I post to a blog giving information to writers looking for work, so I post click through banners on the site to try and make a bit of money on the side.
Now I’m not looking for a fortune as in an MLM, but I’m seriously thinking of placing an order for traffic submission to generate a little interest.
What experiences has any body had with this type of marketing?
Does it work?